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IBM rembourse Windows 98 et Lotus Smart Suite

Windows refund (28 Jul 2000)

From: Olivier GLASSEY <GLASSEY@ufper6.unifr.ch>
To: dash@ch.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:15:37 +0200
Subject: Windows refund

I have not heard from you since our phone talk on July 17. I request
information on how to obtain the Windows 98 refund to which I am
entitled, according to the legal documents accompanying the IBM
Thinkpad I recently purchased. More precisely, the following points
are still unclear:

1) What is the amount of the refund for Windows 98 resp. Lotus SmartSuite?

2) To which address shall the software be returned?

3) Is there a standard procedure established by IBM for returning
   unused software?

4) If no, does IBM plan to establish such a procedure in the future
   and clearly inform its customers?

The legal documents I refer to are the following. First, the handbook
"Mise en route Microsoft (r) Windows (r) 98" (Second Edition) contains
the following Microsoft license (abbreviated CLUF for Contrat de
Licence Utilisateur Final):

  Si vous etes en desaccord avec les termes de ce CLUF, le Fabricant
  d'Ordinateur ne consent pas a vous conceder une licence sur le PRODUIT
  LOGICIEL. Dans ce cas, vous n'avez pas le droit d'utiliser ou de
  copier le PRODUIT LOGICIEL et vous devez contacter rapidement le
  Fabricant d'Ordinateur afin d'obtenir des instructions pour le retour
  contre remboursement du (des) produit(s) non utilise(s).

  #51160012 04/26/95

Of course, Fabricant d'Ordinateur refers to IBM and the PRODUIT
LOGICIEL is Windows 98.

The second document is a statement printed by IBM itself on the paper
sealing the plastic bag in which my Thinkpad is wrapped. 

  Important -- A lire avant de desinstaller

  Lisez attentivement les contrats de licence accompagnant les
  programmes fournis avec ce systeme avant de les utiliser. Ces contrats
  presentent de facon detaillee vos droits, obligations et garanties
  concernant les programmes fournis avec le systeme.

  En utilisant ces programmes, vous acceptez d'etre lie par les termes
  de l'accord de licence applicable. Si ces termes ne vous agreent pas,
  retournez sans delai tous les programmes. Vous serez alors rembourse
  integralement.

  28L3137

Note that both documents indicate a right to a total refund if the
software has never been used. Please tell me what you have done so far
to solve this problem, and inform me as soon as you have a definitive 
answer.

Thank you for your time and attention.

----
Olivier Glassey
University of Fribourg, Switzerland.

Re: Windows refund from dash@ch.ibm.com (28 Jul 2000)

From: dash@ch.ibm.com
To: Olivier GLASSEY <Olivier.Glassey@unifr.ch>
cc: dash@ch.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:27:44 +0200
Subject: Re: Windows refund

Dear Mr. Glassey

I just spoke this morning with our HQ in Paris and they told me (after
having checked this with US marketing) that we will not give refund for
Windows 98/95. There is only one solution if you don't want to use Windows
98 and still insist of refunding - you can return the whole unit and will
get the purchase amount back. The unit and the package must be in unused
condition.
The sentence you have sent to us has been written by Microsoft (for OEM
vendors of their own software). There is no program from IBM to pay back
the OEM  license fee which is approx. CHF 100 (and I'm not aware if any
other vendor is able to handle this).

yours sincerely

Danny A. Scheuzger
ThinkPad Product Manager
IBM Schweiz

Address:       Postfach, (HL6), CH-8010 Zürich
Telephone:    +41 (0) 1 643 5517
Fax:                 +41 (0) 1 643 6212
Internet:          dash@ch.ibm.com

Re: Windows refund (28 Jul 2000)

From: Olivier GLASSEY <GLASSEY@ufper6.unifr.ch>
To: dash@ch.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:45:58 +0200
Subject: Re: Windows refund

Dear Mr Scheuzger,

Thank you for your quick answer. You have been very helping and I 
appreciate IBM support. I think however that a few facts have escaped 
your attention.

> I just spoke this morning with our HQ in Paris and they told me (after
> having checked this with US marketing) that we will not give refund for 
> Windows 98/95. There is only one solution if you don't want to use Windows
> 98 and still insist of refunding - you can return the whole unit and will
> get the purchase amount back. The unit and the package must be in unused
> condition.

Well, the law is the law. I can use any machine I buy, be it a tooth brush, 
a car or an IBM computer. I will not return my Thinkpad.

> The sentence you have sent to us has been written by Microsoft (for OEM 
> vendors of their own software). There is no program from IBM to pay back
> the OEM  license fee which is approx. CHF 100 (and I'm not aware if any 
> other vendor is able to handle this).

Your argument is seems to be wrong.

1) The sentence "Vous serez integralement rembourse" on the Thinkpad seal
   has been written by IBM, not Microsoft.

2) If IBM is stupid enough to resell Microsoft software under Microsoft's
   monopolistic conditions, it is not my problem. If IBM does not get the
   amount of the refund from Microsoft, it is not my problem.

Let me recall that the "Contrat de Licence Utilisateur Final" is a legal 
contract between me and IBM, the Fabricant d'Ordinateur. This is the very 
first sentence of the CLUF. Microsoft does not play any role in this 
contract. IBM has accepted to sell software under the OEM terms. This 
might be a marketing error, but I am not responsible for IBM decisions. 
Moreover, according to the terms of the CLUF, the refund concerns the 
"produit(s) non utilise(s)", not the full package. I will use my Thinkpad 
but not the Microsoft stuff sold with it. Software and hardware are clearly 
distinct products.

I will not hesitate to bring this injustice to the public's attention if 
IBM does not fully satisfy my request.

Sincerely,

----
Olivier Glassey
University of Fribourg, Switzerland.

Re: Windows refund from dash@ch.ibm.com (3 Aug 2000)

From: dash@ch.ibm.com
To: Olivier GLASSEY <Olivier.Glassey@unifr.ch>
cc: dash@ch.ibm.com, hrhe@ch.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:49:14 +0200
Subject: Re: Windows refund

Dear Mr. Glassey

I'm currently in talks with our EHQ and hope that we can find a solution
which suits you.

yours sincerely

Danny A. Scheuzger
ThinkPad Product Manager
IBM Schweiz

Address:       Postfach, (HL6), CH-8010 Zürich
Telephone:    +41 (0) 1 643 5517
Fax:                 +41 (0) 1 643 6212
Internet:          dash@ch.ibm.com

Letter sent to IBM (9 Aug 2000)

Olivier Glassey 
Rue de la Chenau 11
CH-1957 Ardon 
email: olivier.glassey@unifr.ch 

EINSCHREIBEN 
Mr Danny A. Scheuzger 
ThinkPad Product Manager 
IBM Schweiz 
Postfach, (HL6) 
CH-8010 Zürich 

Dear Mr Scheuzger, 

I am writing to officially request a refund of the software accompanying
my Thinkpad (serial number S556236N), bought on July 11 at Portable Shop,
in Fribourg. I have already explained the legal basis for my request in two
emails, sent to you on July 28, and joined to this letter for your convenience.
I only repeat that I completely disagree with the ``Contrat de Licence
Utilisateur Final Pour Logiciel Microsoft'' as well as with the license
accompanying Lotus SmartSuite.

On Sunday, August 6, I broke the IBM seal and took the notebook out of its
plastic bag. Then I booted the computer on a Linux Installation cd-rom,
destroyed the Windows partitions with the help of that Linux software, created
new Linux partitions, formatted them, and installed Linux.

As you can see, neither Windows nor any part thereof has ever been run on my
Thinkpad. The whole installation process has taken place in front of witnesses
and has been filmed.

Please pay the refund for Windows and Lotus SmartSuite to my postal account
17-372876-5 in the next 30 days.

Thank your for your kind help and attention. 

Yours sincerely, 
Olivier Glassey 

encl: 
 1 copy an e-mail sent to you on July 28, 11:15 
 1 copy an e-mail sent to you on July 28, 13:45 
 1 sleeve containing 1 cd-rom labeled ``Lotus SmartSuite'', Part No. 39L8197 
 1 sleeve containing 1 cd-rom labeled ``CD Sélection de logiciels Thinkpad IBM 390X'', Réf. IBM 09N2234 
 1 sleeve containing 2 cd-roms, labeled ``CD-ROM de restauration, Thinkpad IBM 390X MT 2626'', Réf. IBM 09N2231 
 1 Windows handbook ``Mise en route Microsoft Windows 98'', containing the ``Contrat de Licence Utilisateur Final Pour Logiciel Microsoft'' 
 1 copy of the IBM seal affixed to the plastic bag wrapping the Thinkpad 
 1 Microsoft Windows 98 Certificate of Authenticity (Product Key: B36VQ-RXMVV-QM8WD-8V8GF-3JQJM, Product ID: 08100-OEM-0089425-05324), originally sticked to the bottom side of my Thinkpad 
 1 pink payment form (Empfangsschein)

 cc:  Radio Suisse Romande, Émission ``Histoire d'en parler.''

Windows 98 refund from dash@ch.ibm.com (10 Aug 2000)

From: dash@ch.ibm.com
To: Olivier.Glassey@unifr.ch
cc: dash@ch.ibm.com, hrhe@ch.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:34:26 +0200
Subject: Windows 98 refund

Dear Mr. Glassey

Today I received the Microsoft Windows 98 package which has been sent by
you. We will soon let you know about the reimbursement of the Windows 98
license, you will not get a reimbursement for the Lotus SmartSuite.

yours sincerely

Danny A. Scheuzger
ThinkPad Product Manager
IBM Schweiz

Address:       Postfach, (HL6), CH-8010 Zürich
Telephone:    +41 (0) 1 643 5517
Fax:                 +41 (0) 1 643 6212
Internet:          dash@ch.ibm.com

CMT complaint UA1417 from MLDOWNIE@uk.ibm.com (11 Aug 2000)

From: MLDOWNIE@uk.ibm.com
To: glassey@ufper6.unifr.ch
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:42:23 +0100
Subject: CMT complaint UA1417 

Dear Mr Glassey

First of all I would like to apologize for the inconvenience you have
experienced.

I have logged your request for a reimbursement for the Win98 and Lotus
SmartSuite as an official complaint.
Mr Scheutzger is looking into this case and will keep me updated until a
solution has been found.
Should you have any queries in the meantime, please do not hesitate to
contact me.

Regards/Mit freundlichen Grüssen,

Marie-Louise Downie
IBM Customer Relations
DE  Tel 069 6654 9001 Fax 9060
CH  Tel 01 212 1812 Fax 01 643 7121
GB  Tel 01475 555 114 Fax 01475 557 383

Windows 98 refund from dash@ch.ibm.com (11 Aug 2000)

From: dash@ch.ibm.com
To: Olivier.Glassey@unifr.ch
cc: dash@ch.ibm.com, vknu@ch.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:50:28 +0200
Subject: Windows 98 refund

Mr. Glassey

the refund amount you will get from us for Windows 98 is CHF 102.00. The
amount will be transferred to your account.

yours sincerely

Danny A. Scheuzger
ThinkPad Product Manager
IBM Schweiz

Address:       Postfach, (HL6), CH-8010 Zürich
Telephone:    +41 (0) 1 643 5517
Fax:                 +41 (0) 1 643 6212
Internet:          dash@ch.ibm.com

Re: Windows 98 refund (10 Sep 2000)

From: Olivier Glassey <glassey@ufper6.unifr.ch>
To: dash@ch.ibm.com, vknu@ch.ibm.com
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:22:38 +0200
Subject: Re: Windows 98 refund

Dear Mr. Scheuzger,

dash@ch.ibm.com wrote:
> 
> Mr. Glassey
> 
> the refund amount you will get from us for Windows 98 is CHF 102.00. The
> amount will be transferred to your account.

1. The 30-day deadline I gave you has now been reached, but the money
   has still not been transferred to my account. Please explain me
   exactly which steps have already been taken, and tell me what date
   the money will be in my hands.

2. Please send me a copy of the license accompanying Lotus SmartSuite,
   so that my lawyers can study it more toroughly.

Sincerely,

  Olivier Glassey.

Re: Windows 98 refund from vknu@ch.ibm.com (15 Sep 2000)

From: vknu@ch.ibm.com
To: Olivier Glassey <glassey@ufper6.unifr.ch>
cc: dash@ch.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:00:34 +0200
Subject: Re: Windows 98 refund

Dear Mr. Glassey,

I had a look on your case. At the moment I`m initiate all nessesary steps
to handle it as soon as posslible. The statement from our side will recive
you next week.

 I wish you a nice weekend

With kind regards
 Vera Knubel
Office Support PSG

Postal Address: Hohlstrasse 600 (HL6), 8010 Zürich
Tel. ++41/1/643 63 38
Fax ++41/1/643 62 12
Internet : vera_knubel@ch.ibm.com

Letter from IBM (14 Sep 2000)

(IBM Logo) 
 IBM Schweiz 
 Hohlstrasse 600, Postfach 
 8010 Zürich 
 Telefon 0848 80 43 43, Fax 01 643 78 44 
 Monsieur 
 O. Glassey 
 Rue de la Chenau 11 
 1957 Ardon 

 Zürich, September 14. 2000 

 For questions: Hans-Rudolf Hechler, Tel: 01 643 63 20, mail: hrhe@ch.ibm.com 

Complaint Case UA 1417 

Dear Mr. Glassey 
 We apologise for the long delay this case has taken. However I am glad to
inform you that this case is closed and all necessary approvals on our side
have been fullfilled, with immediate effect. You will therefore be able to
receive on your postal account the amount of CHF 102.- paid through the Customer
First Program. Unfortunately, it can take up to 14 days, till you have this
amount physically in the account due to our internal processes. Still I have
put your request on high level escalation in order to get it to you earlier.

At this point I would like to thank you for your patience. 

With kind regards 
 (signature) 
 Hans-Rudolf Hechler 
 Sales Manager Marketing 
 Personal Systems Group

Note de crédit from IBM (4 Oct 2000)

IBM pays back CHF 109.65 (2 Nov 2000)

IBM Switzerland transferred CHF 109.65 to O. Glassey's postal account on November 2, 2000.1)

Le contenu de cette page a été copié de Gnuwin.epfl.ch avec l'aimable autorisation de son auteur.

Distributing verbatim copies of this document is allowed and encouraged, as long as the copies are complete. In particular, copies must include this copyright notice, all html pages, all images, all style files.

1) CHF 109.65 is US$ 60.00.
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